Difference between 
Romance and Women's Fiction

Gail Gaymer Martin

October 9, 2003

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Welcome to Heart & Soul Workshop!

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***The workshop for Christian's writing in all genres...

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Tonight's special guest is...

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Gail Martin!!!

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Welcome Gail!

GailGMartin:      Thanks. Glad to be here.

HOST WPLC Janni: So good to have you as our guest Gail! :-)

HOST WPLC Cyndi: <><><><clapping wildly<><><

GailGMartin:      It's been a while.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Gail, would you like to begin by sharing about yourself for us? 

GailGMartin:      Sure.

GailGMartin:      I write romance for Steeple Hill Love Inspired and Heartsong Presents. I also write Barbour anthologies, and I've sold my second single title to Steeple Hill's new women's fiction single title line. I'm thrilled - and by the way, just sold my first hardcover.  I'm very blessed.  I've sold 24 novels and 7 novellas in 6 years.  I'm amazed. <g>  God is sooo good.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: Congrats!

GailGMartin:      Thanks.

SilkNThornyRose: applause 

HOST WPLC Janni: Congrats Gail!

HOST WPLC Cyndi: Yes!

GailGMartin:      I can't believe I've sold so many in the past months.

Kinthu:     Yes indeed--that's terrific.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: We're honored to have you here.

GailGMartin:      You're always welcome.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: Again, thank you.  Are you ready to begin our topics?

Dhewco:     I can't imagine writing that many Gail...hehe, much less selling

GailGMartin:      Sure am.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: Okay, ga Kinthu.

GailGMartin:      Many people are confused when writing romance - and have an editor tell them it's women's fiction.

Kinthu:     (I say it's whatever the folks who sign the checks say it is)

Kinthu:     But I digress.  Gail, what do you hear about the new Christian chick lit line S/H is starting?

GailGMartin:      The chick lit is part of the women's fiction line. It's not separate. It's sort of Sex in the City without the Sex.

Kinthu:     Oh.  OK.  Rats.

GailGMartin:      Anyway - the problem is - that the editors don't always sign the checks - they reject.

GailGMartin:      If they want romance, they don't want women's fiction and visa versa.

GailGMartin:      It's important that authors know the difference between the two - so I was asked to talk about this. I'm writing both and enjoy both.

GailGMartin:      I assume you all know what a romance is.  Boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl. Happy ending.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: lol

GailGMartin:      Category romance has this type of format - the story focus on two people - their goals, motivation, and conflicts.

GailGMartin:      All subplots are directly related to the romance or characters in some way.

GailGMartin:      Not so with women's fiction.

GailGMartin:      Category romance which is the biggest seller - runs from 45K to 75K word length.

GailGMartin:      Women's fiction - usually begins around 90K and up to 120 or higher.

GailGMartin:      But that's not the only difference.

GailGMartin:      Women's fiction can have a romance - and many do - but the romance is only one small part of the story.

GailGMartin:      My first women's fiction (single title) out next month - The Christmas Kite - has a romance. But the story revolves mostly around a widow with a Down Syndrome child.

GailGMartin:      The story is funny and sad.  Everyone who's read it falls in love with my little 8 year old Down Syndrome child. They laugh and cry.

GailGMartin:      So let's talk about  how women's fiction differs from romance.

GailGMartin:      If you can take the romance out of your novel and still have a compelling story - you have women's fiction.

GailGMartin:      You can do that in the The Christmas Kite - - the romance is romantic and wonderful - but the romance could be removed and the story still has meaning.

GailGMartin:      Women's fiction deals with any issue that is of interest to women - abortion, divorce,  gossip, adultery, kidnapping, death, rape, domestic violence, child abuse, infertility.

GailGMartin:      The books are often relationship books - but not necessarily with a man.  It can be the relationship of a mother and daughter, two sisters, siblings, friends, a married couple and their trials.

GailGMartin:      The stories usually revolve around emotionally engaged characters - and focuses on the woman.

GailGMartin:      Plot is character driven - their needs rather than outside things that  are happening to them.

GailGMartin:      Motivation can be event and issue driven - like a kidnapped child or adultery.

GailGMartin:      These stories are very realistic, they are believable stories almost like a slice of life.

GailGMartin:      Think of Heavenly Daze - if you've read it or Jan Karon's Mitford books.

GailGMartin:      Always the stories have strong women.

GailGMartin:      So the differences between WF and Romance are:

GailGMartin:      Pacing - it has no formula - but is free flowing - slower pacing at times.

GailGMartin:      Flashbacks can be used more readily.

GailGMartin:      Lengthier descriptions - opportunities to wax poetically.

GailGMartin:      H & H don't  have to meet on the first page - if it's women's fiction and the ending doesn't have to be a happy one. - it is often bittersweet.

GailGMartin:      Okay - that's the gist of difference.  As I said, I write for Steeple Hill's new line - and really enjoy the chance to write something a little different.

GailGMartin:      Now - if you have any questions about all of this ga

Kinthu:     I understand that their first few books are already scheduled, written, etc...do you think there will be room for new authors in this setup?

GailGMartin:      Absolutely - we already have many new authors in the new line. They are their  first sales and they are thrilled.

GailGMartin:      Not all the authors came from the LI line.  In fact only a few have.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: That's encouraging.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: More questions for Gail?

GailGMartin:      They did bring in a few authors who were already established but they are still looking for fresh voice's.

Ekey95:     Are Brandilyn's "Cast" books considered wom fic?

GailGMartin:      Yes - Brandilyn's Cast the Road Before Me - and the Wind one??? I can't remember and she'd kick me. <g>

GailGMartin:      Actually - Eyes of Elisha is suspense but that's also women's fiction.

Ekey95:     We won't tell.

GailGMartin:      It's about a strong woman who becomes involved in a crime case.

GailGMartin:      Thanks.

HOST WPLC Janni: :)

GailGMartin:      All I could think of is the Wind Beneath my wings - and I know that's not it.

Kinthu:     I'm told many of the authors for the new line are not new to Harlequin, only to LI--Is debut authors' work being selected as well?

Kinthu:     (Capture the Wind For Me) I think.

Ekey95:     ?

GailGMartin:      Yes - debut authors have been added - totally unpublished.  In Love Inspired as well.

GailGMartin:      Right <g>

Kinthu:     Wow--I haven't seen any.

GailGMartin:      No - you have to remember it takes a good year or two before their books come out.

GailGMartin:      Most of them will be released next year.

GailGMartin:      That's part of the sadness of finally selling.  It takes a year to 18 months for your book to actually be published.

Kinthu:     or heard of any

GailGMartin:      That's part of the business.

GailGMartin:      I'm blank on names - Shirley ?? is one.

GailGMartin:      If I ran and got my brochure I could tell you.

GailGMartin:      The opening author is Hannah Alexander who is well know in CBA

GailGMartin:      I'm the second book.

SageDenn:   I just picked up All Good Gifts in The Harvest book. What is the word length on these collections?

GailGMartin:     Shirlee  McCoy is her name - my husband ran and got my book.

Kinthu:     That's good to hear.

GailGMartin:      The shorter 2 in 1s are about 38K.

GailGMartin:      Longer than a novella but shorter than a novel.

GailGMartin:      I hope you enjoy the book.  I'm heading up to Mackinac Island and the city of Mackinaw for a double book signing.

GailGMartin:      I leave in the morning.  All Good Gifts in the Harvest and my

novel The Christmas Kite are both set up there - so I'm signing both.

HOST WPLC Janni: Gail, Janet here...when you plot out a WF ST how does it differ from your romance novels?  How do you plot?  Pre-write?  Research? Thanks. Can you tell I'm really interested in knowing? lol.

GailGMartin:      I mentioned a lot of difference early in the workshop - but what I do differently is to focus on the deep needs of the heroine - and the story centers around that. I have many more subplots than I do in a romance.

GailGMartin:      For example in The Christmas Kite - my heroine is concerned about her son's health but especially his education. She's dealing with finding a job and caring for her Down Syndrome son. She's dealing with the rejection of her in-laws and how to handle this with her son. She's dealing with a cousin who rejected her when her son was born with a disability. All these subplots are woven through the story - as well as the kite flying stranger who is the hero in the book.

GailGMartin:      I look for more depth to my characters - more plotting - deeper conflicts and more complex issues.

Ekey95:     At ACRW conf Joan from LI said they'd accept and read manus. Is this true in Wom fic line and what editor?

GailGMartin:      As I said they are willing to look at new authors - they are even more welcome in the LI line.  We've added about 6 or 7 new authors in the past few months.  Remember LI has gone from 3 books a month to 4 and then they added the new trade books.

GailGMartin:      The editors for all the Steeple Hill books are - senior editor Joan Marlow Golan.

GailGMartin:      Then Diane Dietz and Krista Stroever.  They've added a new editor and I'm blank.

GailGMartin:      By the way - remember that the women's fiction line includes - historicals, suspense, thrillers, regency, and a variety of sub genre -including mommy lit and chick lit.

GailGMartin:      They are planning to develop the LI line with 1 romantic suspense each month.  If you write romantic suspense, now is the time to submit.

Kinthu:     Farrin Jacobs the other editor-?

Ekey95:     Thank you

HOST WPLC Janni: How long do you recommend the synopsis be for a LI?  And then for the new trade line?  Thanks, Oh I have a MS requested by Joan!

GailGMartin:      Congrats on the request.

HOST WPLC Janni: thanks! <G>

GailGMartin:      My synopses run about 7 to 10 on an LI - a little longer when I write a suspense.

GailGMartin:      On a women's fiction - it would probably run from 12  to 16 pages.

SageDenn:   Is the romantic suspense for the regular LI or the WF?

HOST WPLC Janni: <Thanks, very helpful!>

GailGMartin:      Both lines.

GailGMartin:      I've been asked to do some more romantic suspense.  My novel A Love for Safekeeping was awarded the RT Reviewers Choice for Best LI in 2002 - and that was a romantic suspense.  People love them.

GailGMartin:      Joan has asked me to do more.  I also have one for the WF line - not submitted yet.  I'm still writing 5 books before I can do anything else.

FaithfullSpirit2:       (Shelter From The Storm is a LI romantic suspense, it's good)

Kinthu:     (I liked A Love For Safekeeping)

HOST WPLC Janni: Gail you are obviously a talented and prolific writer!  How do you organize it all? Writing, submitting, booksignings, marketing etc.

GailGMartin:      It's not easy. <g>

GailGMartin:      I work 7 days a week as many hours as I can get in.  I can write up to 30 page or more on a good day. I don't have all that many good days though.  I don't waste time - I plot or edit where I am. Doc office, riding in a car. I plot while exercising.  I give up a lot of TV, social life, and other hobbies. I have to say NO - which is very difficult for me.

FaithfullSpirit2:       (30! and you guys say I'm fast! I've only done 28 on a good day)

Dhewco:     Social Life, well at least I don't have to worry about that.

GailGMartin:      I have a wonderful husband who has taken over many household duties and I have a house keeper so that helps.

Kinthu:     (difference is not statistically significant, Faith)

GailGMartin:      I have a great office.  I can close the door.  It's a large room all my own.  I'm very spoiled.

FaithfullSpirit2:       :-D

GailGMartin:      I am very organized too.

GailGMartin:      I have a file with all my research, character sketches, any info I need and its' handy.

FaithfullSpirit2:       <---not spoiled, no office, and no maid, but husband does help with the chores

GailGMartin:      When I did the high suspense - continuity that will be out in July - mine launches the series -  I used a note book with index tabs to all kinds of research info and background info.

GailGMartin:      That really helps.  I also see my novels as a movie - and so I write what I see.

Kinthu:     Just one quick question--how does a new author get them to read the MS?

GailGMartin:      Submit.  All manuscripts are read at Steeple Hill/Harlequin.

Kinthu:     Consider that part done already.

GailGMartin:      Remember, within a couple of pages they can tell if it's a book they want.

GailGMartin:      They can tell from the quality of writing, the hooks, the plot line - the author's skill. so they don't read it all unless they love it. Everyone gets read - but it takes time for a new author and one without an agent.

GailGMartin:      The great thing is you don't need an agent at Steeple Hill or Harlequin.

Kinthu:     me?

GailGMartin:      Yes

HOST WPLC Janni: 8-)

Kinthu:     How long, do you think, does it take with an agent as opposed to w/o one?

GailGMartin:      A little longer - but I'll guess you'll get a response in a few months.

Kinthu:     longer w/an agent-?  

GailGMartin:      No - it takes longer without an agent.

GailGMartin:      Remember you're competing against their authors who have sold novels coming in that need line edits, etc.and proposals to be looked at.

GailGMartin:      But not that much I don't think - unless they know your agent well.  Then they might look faster.

Kinthu:     :-P

GailGMartin:      Steeple Hill is pretty good about getting stuff back to authors, I think.

GailGMartin:      I write for Barbour too and I've waited 3 years to hear about a book.

Kinthu:     (3 years?!)

HOST WPLC Janni: what!?  Wow!

GailGMartin:      It sold - but that's a long time.   Yep - 3 years. 

Kinthu:     (yipes)

SageDenn:   Do all editors acquire for LI and the WF line - waited a year and a half for Barbour.

GailGMartin:      I hope you sold.   Yes all editor's will read the MS and recommend it for sale - for the past few months, they have been sending the MSs to the Steeple Hill editors rather than acquiring.  They usually go throughout all the lines. 

GailGMartin:      I still have Patience Smith as an editor.   I love her.

HOST WPLC Janni: Gail, do you run your proposals/synopses by someone besides your agent before submitting? 

GailGMartin:      Yes - I've gotten smart.  I will often send Patience a little blurb about my idea. She tells me if she thinks it will fly.

HOST WPLC Janni: <that saves time and work!>

GailGMartin:      She's usually right.  Often she sees women's fiction (if I'm try to sell for LI) or too touchy a subject.

GailGMartin:      I hate that.

HOST WPLC Janni: LOL

GailGMartin:      Very much so.

GailGMartin:      I finally got smart.

GailGMartin:      I used to send them and get rejected.  So I do it this way and save time.

GailGMartin:      I write so many books  a year - and I don't need to get held up. <g>

GailGMartin:      I had 5 novels out this year - and 6 next. Amazing.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***I hate this!  It's that time once again...

Kinthu:     Aw no!  Already-?

HOST WPLC Janni: the hour flew by!

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***This has been a lot of wonderful information!

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***But time flies...

Kinthu:     rats

GailGMartin:      I hope it helped a little. 

HOST WPLC Janni: Timely too, thanks Gail!!!!

Ekey95:     Thanks Gail. Cyber chocolate here!!

HOST WPLC Janni: Very much!

SageDenn:   Thanks Gail - this has been very helpful

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Gail, do you have some parting advice for us?  Website?

GailGMartin:      You know you can visit my web site at www.gailmartin.com.  I have tons of info.

GailGMartin:      Yes - submit and keep honing your craft.

Kinthu:     Why doesn't SH list their acquisitions people, if that's who you're supposed to send to?  Sheesh.

GailGMartin:      Critique partners and conferences are tops.

GailGMartin:      I don't know.  I think they're listed - but you can send to anyone.  It'll get to the right person.

Ekey95:     O:-)YOU are wonderful thanks.

HOST WPLC Cyndi: ***Thanks Gail Martin!

GailGMartin:      Thanks - Please look for The Christmas Kite  It's trade size and longer - more expensive too. <g>

HOST WPLC Cyndi: <><><><clapping wildly><><><

HOST WPLC Janni: I will! :)

GailGMartin:      It's getting great reviews. Thanks.

Kinthu:     That's all right--I'll ask 'em to put it in my stocking, <g>

HOST WPLC Janni: Excellent!

GailGMartin:      Blessings and happy writing to you all.